4月8日，北大博雅非洲论坛再次开坛，来自冈比亚的前联合国顾问Lamin Sise先生与刘贵今大使就《非洲的和平与发展》和40余名与会者（包括非洲十国的记者和来自新华社、《南方报业》、北京周报社、中国非洲民间友好交流协会、中央党校、中国农大、清华大学、乐施会及北京大学）互动。刘海方主持，李安山作总结。以下是论坛实况稿。
非洲的和平与发展:经验与教训
主持人：刘海方副教授
近些年来，非洲的发展，非洲的兴起，成为了一个热点，引起了人们的广泛关注。但非洲的这种发展是否是非洲实现转型的一次机会?这也引发了学术界的讨论。
与此同时，非洲的真正和平似乎并没有到来，发展的环境并不稳定。非洲还存在一些问题，比如，从阿拉伯之春以来，北部非洲面临着一些困境，撒哈拉以南非洲国家的政变，刚果（金）多年来的混乱和冲突，尼日利亚和肯尼亚的恐怖主义袭击事件等等。
那么，非洲的和平与发展到底处于一种怎样的状况？本次论坛的主题就是，非洲发展的表现有哪些指标? 非洲和平安全领域面临的挑战有哪些？下面，欢迎本次论坛嘉宾刘贵今大使和Lamin Sise先生发言。
刘大使:
非洲依然处于贫困、政治动荡和欠发达之中，原因是什么?
我在大使和非洲问题特使的位置上多年,经常有国家领导人问我上面的问题.我认为,原因有很多：殖民主义的遗留问题，不利的国际经济秩序和领导的问题，政府缺乏良好的治理，外部力量的干预，内部的宗教冲突等等都是。
可能Lamin Sise先生可以告诉我们原因。但无论如何，我们可以看到近年来非洲发展地很快，特别是从90年代中期开始，到这个世纪开始的十年里，我们可以看到、听到、读到很多关于非洲的发展情况，如日渐成熟的政党体系。在发展最快的是10个国家中，有7个是非洲国家。我们很高兴可以看到尼日利亚刚刚进行了顺利、和平的选举，从现任总统过渡到一个新当选的反对派的总统。《卫报》近期在南非的研究指出，尼日尼亚是非洲大陆最大的经济体，尼日尼亚将在10年或20年内成为非洲的超级大国。因为尼日利亚拥有1.7亿的人口，并且经济也在持续快速增长。当然，尼日利亚也有自身的问题，也面临着严峻的挑战，比如博科圣地的问题、贫穷问题，南北分裂问题。然而这些问题不能阻止尼日尼亚进一步发展，成为非洲一股强大的力量。
非洲的发展让我们相信非洲有着光明的未来。但是非洲仍然比较贫困，还存在很多的问题。我们知道利比亚发生了什么，通过利比亚卡扎菲的相关报道，我们可以看到马里北部仍然存在的问题。我们还可以看到，中非共和国和苏丹的局势依然动荡，仍有武装冲突，达尔富尔问题也还没有从根本上得到解决。在很多地方，非洲都面临着很多挑战，非洲国家需要时间，需要国际社会的支持来解决这些问题。和平和稳定仍然是非洲面临的主要挑战，在我读过的西方学者的研究成果中提到，在非洲的54个国家中，一半以上曾经陷入战争。所以说如果非洲能够保持和平和社会稳定，那么非洲的发展速度将会加快。
非洲如何克服这些问题,才能使当地更加稳定，环境更加美好、发展更加科学、更吸引外国投资呢?
在亚洲四小龙中，比如新加坡，韩国，台湾地区等，他们有着殖民主义遗留问题，他们缺乏发展经验和能力，但他们都努力克服了这些问题。我认为在五六十年代非洲的一些国家比韩国、台湾和新加坡都更富裕。这些小国家或地区是如何在当地自然资源匮乏的情况下得到发展呢？那是因为政策,前后一致的政策,以及适合当地的经济发展模式。中国也可以与非洲分享发展经验。中国政府有一个促进经济发展的模式，但这是适应中国本土、文化和历史发展的模式，不一定适合非洲。任何外国的理念、模式不一定适应非洲当地，这就是为什么中国不像其他大国那样，将中国的政治体制和发展模式强加给非洲。我们愿意分享我们的经验,特别是我们在扶贫，发展农村和发展中小企业方面的经验。我们愿意在这些地区分享我们的经验,而不急于作为一项政府政策去干预非洲的意识形态或发展模式。因为我们了解经济学，并且在很多方面取得了成就。在基础设施方面，比如高铁、港口、机场和海港，中国可以算是佼佼者。但是考虑到我们庞大的人口基数，中国的人均收入仍排在第80位，我们还是发展中国家。如果许多非洲国家拥有稳定的政治、有效的政策和政府，非洲国家一样可以取得中国这样的成绩。我坚信许多非洲国家可以跟中国政府做的一样，复制成功的经验。
Lamin Sise先生 :
我想从不同的角度，从我们最近接触和参与的经历和事件出发，谈谈我们那个地区的和平与发展。可以给你两个例子，一个是关于西部非洲的，另一个是前秘书长和他的团队最近处理的东非事件。但首先我想谈谈我对于非洲和平发展的乐观态度。有时候困境可能会带来更大的机遇。我要说的这个例子与我自己的国家冈比亚有关。它小得可怜，有时人们说它落后、无关紧要。但是，我想说的是，在一个贫穷落后的国家发生的情况，如何导致了更重大的事件发生。1943年，美国总统罗斯福和英国首相丘吉尔正计划在摩洛哥的卡萨布兰卡举行会议，以制定关于结束二战和战后的战略安排。这次会议提出了无条件投降的构想。罗斯福访问了很多处于无政府状态的领土。他从迈阿密前往巴西，然后到西非洲的冈比亚。当他看到冈比亚的贫困状况的时候，他震惊了。他转身问他的同僚，为什么这些人生活在这种条件下？如果他们有权自由和独立地决定自己的处境、决定自己的未来，他们能改变这种状况吗？罗斯福决定跟丘吉尔谈论，一旦战争结束了，这些状况必须得到解决。丘吉尔是个更大的帝国主义??者，不想谈论它，但罗斯福竭尽全力，并说：不行，我们必须派调查员去视察这些人民的处境。有一天晚上，丘吉尔同意派调查员到这些地方去，但提出他们也想派调查员到美国南方各州来调查那些住在南方各州人民的情况。罗斯福答道：请便，我们会欢迎他们，但我们必须正视上述地区的自治，以及改善这些国家的居民生活的问题。
但无论如何，美国决定了，准备了自己的提案，并将其发送给国务院，加入美国的一揽子计划，打算提交给建立联合国的旧金山国际会议。该提案被列入联合国的宪章，并成为单独一章，即对无自主权地区应该获得自治权的声明。
我在这里要说的是，一个非常小的国家，处于非常糟糕的境地，但因为落后被关注而促使当时很多尚未自治的国家获得独立，并全部成为联合国会员。这让我看到了非洲和平发展的未来。
众所周知，在2007年底到2008年肯尼亚出现了危机，发生了大屠杀。索马里青年党带来了安全问题。很多人都问，在这种情况下，你如何处理危机情况？如何从危机形势中获得发展？
选举后的暴力，在很长一段时间都会影响肯尼亚的局势,有时这种情况可能持续一年,十年或者十五年。一个国家需要比较长的时间才能恢复。肯尼亚是非常幸运的,从一开始,他们就接受了来自非洲联盟的调停者。尽管非盟也有自己的困难,但他们顺利成立了一个小组来解决这次冲突。
前坦桑尼亚总统本杰明·姆卡帕和南非前总统曼德拉的妻子格拉萨·马谢尔参加了调停。联合国前秘书长科菲安南作为小组领头。这个委员会的最重要的任务是停止暴力,看看是什么导致他们相互屠杀？为什么会有暴力？该委员会的第一任务是看在选举过程中出了什么问题？要采取何种方式纠正?委员会的第二任务是暴力本身。这个事件从肯尼亚转移到国际刑事法庭,我们可以知道到底发生了什么。
真理，和解和公正委员会成立了。为了解决选举问题,准备了长期方案。他们最终颁布了一项新的宪法，在我看来,这在非洲大陆上是最进步的宪法之一。委员会在确保有公民参与方面非常坚决。很多组织被动员起来, 在委员会前往内罗毕与他们见面并讨论问题的时候，他们非常活跃。
关于西海岸的贩毒问题，以及东部的科菲·安南和他的团队在其任期内讨论过的问题。贩毒形势威胁到了许多联合国在该地区多个发展中国家取得的成果。现在，来自拉丁美洲的贩毒集团发现了从西非到欧洲和美国的通道，这威胁到了联合国所取得的成果。毒贩子几乎渗透到了所有社会领域，如警察、司法部门、政治头目。他们出钱，这些个人和系统便开始崩溃。你没法分辨一个法官是不是被贿赂了，不知道毒贩子会吩咐行政人员做什么事。他们不知道的是，如果你是一个进口、甚至转口国，在一定的时间内，你可能成为一个消费国，并可能最终成为制造国。这时候，人们聚集在安南周围，说：让我们建立一个由精英组成的委员会，去各地活动并做些大事。西非毒品委员会应运而生。专家组的第一个构想是制止暴力。为了阻止暴力，你需要了解是什么引起了暴力事件，但更重要的是暴力事件起因后面又是什么。
问答环节
大卫：我是大卫·M·西沃德，来自利比里亚，北京大学的学生。我的问题是，大使先生。你提到非洲的最新发展。我们非洲大陆已经有54个国家，你在最近发展方面提到7个,7个国家对于54个国家来说真的是进步吗？我的第二个问题问Lamin Sise先生。有很多为解决非洲问题设置的机构，他们在维持非洲的发展方面已经取得了哪些进展？
大使：根据IMF的数据，2012-2013年。在世界上经济增速最快的前10个实体中，有7个是非洲国家。
Lamin Sise：作为本地区的人，我有不同的观点。外人很难带来持久的非洲的发展。这是我们自己的责任，我们自己应该拿出解决方案。外部的机构可以做他们的工作，但是，终究还是要由我们国家的人民来计划和实现这片大陆的可持续发展。人们想听到的是我们怎么做，我们做了什么。我们需要建立能够维持本地区发展的好的制度和好的领导层。
尼日利亚记者：我的名字叫朱利安，来自尼日利亚的记者。这是我第一次访问中国。我已经耐心地聆听了两位的发言。我注意到你从很多角度、谈到很多问题。非洲有这么多的问题，确实可以从很多角度进行讨论。我们说贫困是疾病的并发症，贫困可能由不当的领导、政策失灵等等导致。令我担忧的是，宗主国实行新殖民主义，企图使我们保持原来的状况。很多非洲国家宣称自己是独立的，但他们都依赖外国。比如，许多非洲失败的领袖，都是在殖民主义干涉的情况下倒台的。大部分非洲领导人没有勇气独自面对未来。眼下中国实行经济双赢的外交政策，非洲领导人可以利用这一点，并学习中国是如何取得到了今天的成就。
我的问题是给大使的：中国最近还推出了新的维和行动方针。700 名武装部队军官正在南苏丹维和。这表明中国的外交政策正在走向参与，中国的30000名军官在世界各地参与维和行动。现在的问题是这样的，像中国这样的大国，如何能在联合国框架内承担责任？
大使：好。解决贫困问题、实现经济社会发展的责任在于非洲人民和非洲领导人，这是事实。中国只能帮助非洲国家并支援它们的努力，不能像宗主国那样插手非洲事务。是的，中国一直不断在涉及非洲的和平与发展问题上更加积极主动。由于当今许多中国人在非洲经商，投资了很多行业，并与非洲建立了密切的关系。中国不可能对非洲国家的政变和叛乱无动于衷。非洲发生的事件与生活在那里的普通中国人有密切关系，所以我们除了更多地参与非洲事务，别无选择。这就是为什么三年前在北京举行中非合作论坛时，我们与非盟在促进和平与发展的问题上建立了伙伴关系；在非盟的协调下，我们为联合国在马里的维和行动派遣军队，并且取得了一些成绩。从长远来看，我们的责任是为维和部队提供医疗援助，并为其他非洲部队提供后勤支援。这些是联合国维和联盟和非盟国家长期需要的。这样，我们可以证明我们在真诚地履行我们的责任。我们决心与非洲国家建立命运共同体。但我们参与的方式是与当今一些国家不同的，我们为什么在联合国的旗帜下，而不是以我们自己国家的名义派兵？因为我们是在联合国和非盟的授权之下履行职责的。我们的目的并不仅仅是出兵保护中国的公民和投资。这是在执行联合国安理会赋予的职责。我想我们会继续这样做。而今年，可能在11月份，我们将举行中非合作论坛在南非的第六届部长级会议，我认为会出台从整体规划的、自己更密切地参与的，以及解决非洲贫困和发展问题的新步骤和措施。李克强总理在访问期间有很多重要讲话，一次是在亚的斯亚贝巴，一次是在阿布贾举行的世界经济论坛上。我们将促进6.1 6.4计划。 6是指6大项目，1表示一个平台，即中非合作论坛。我们的目标是帮助非洲实现工业化，与非盟关于基础设施的总体规划同步，与中国深化经济改革同步，因此我们可以更多的合作。
记者：刚果民主共和国的宪法改革问题
Lamin Sise：在宪法改革问题上，我们已经在非洲的一些国家看到一些尝试：领导者要延长他们的任期，但似乎不被他们的公民所接受。比如塞内加尔前总统瓦德，布基纳法索的布莱斯·孔波雷等。我认为，如果法律和政府的法治结构起作用的话，任何人都不应该企图通过修改宪法以延长他们的任期。
大卫·M·西沃德：你没有提到那个委员会存在下去的意义。
Lamin Sise：正如我刚才所说，委员会的作用正在逐渐增强。它告诉领导人们，他们必须使一些政策到位，以对付贩毒的运输问题。如果他们不这样做，他们就要解决毒品消费问题，必须要处理毒品制造问题。提高这种意识会帮助他们在发展方面取得更多的成就。
中央党校教授：我的问题是问Lamin博士。
非洲国家相互配合，治理跨国犯罪，比如你说到贩毒，能否从政府的角度给我们更多的细节？
Lamin Sise：我从我个人的经验，而不是政府机构来说，因为我的职业生涯一直在联合国。我所知道的是，联合国有个药品部门与非洲西部的几个地区有会议联系和合作关系。合作的事项仍然与国际机构有关。联合国正在帮助该地区解决毒品问题。不仅是贩毒，还有洗钱的问题。洗钱有ECCOWAS在处理。
Daoud：有不同的角度可以讨论非洲的和平与发展。我想问大使先生这个问题：在您看来，谈论和平与发展时，我们应该从哪里开始？
大使：和平与发展真的是一个很大的话题，很大的问题。其实，我们谈论的是这个和平与发展的时代。这不容易用2句话给出明确的答复。一方面，非洲国家和人民都充满了机遇，但与此同时，他们正面临着一个很大的挑战。
我们很高兴地看到，亚洲和非洲是增长最快的两个大陆，亚洲带头，非洲紧随其后。根据国际货币基金组织，亚洲整体GDP发展速度大约是6.5％，而非洲整体的GDP发展速度是4.8％。如果这种趋势继续下去，我们可以预测，贫富差距将在稍后收窄。我们怎样才能实现大陆的和平和稳定？这个任务与很多方面有关，一方面是非洲国家应该自己赶上世界上的其他国家，尽量提高自己的管理能力，改善基础设施，坚定意志，实现发展、团结不同的民族和族群。如果非洲国家可以用同一个声音说话，如果非洲国家可以减少利益冲突，这样该地区的和平与发展就可以实现了。我从达尔富尔局势中得到的经验是，苏丹和乍得有着非常糟糕的关系，这使得达尔富尔问题难以解决。但两个政府改善了关系，达尔富尔问题马上缓解了。这是因为乍得不再支持达尔富尔的反政府武装，并且苏丹政府支持反政府武装。虽然南苏丹冲突有很多利益相关者，但是，如果所有相关国家都是真诚的、慷慨的、真实的，都表现出更多解决问题的政治意愿和承诺，我想结局会有所不同，问题和困难将容易解决。
为什么新加坡取得了成功，那是因为李光耀。因为一贯的政策，比如改善投资环境。因此所有这些因素都是密切相关的。稳定是做任何事情的首要条件。还有改革，你实现了稳定才有利于改革，改革又可以促进发展。所以非洲要把握好稳定、改革和发展这三方面之间的关系。
北京大学历史系副教授：有多少非洲国家真的了解丝绸之路的意义？
大使：嗯，根据最近公布的计划，非洲其实不包括在“一带一路”的65个国家中。这其中包括的国家有很多，东亚，南亚，阿拉伯国家，甚至欧洲。非洲曾经是历史上的海上丝绸之路的一部分。
来自中国农业大学的参与者：我想问拉明·西塞（Lamin Sise）先生，根据你在联合国工作的丰富经验，你能不能告诉我们，有什么具体措施，联合国可以用来动员各个国家，包括发展中国家和发达国家，来促进和平与发展，特别是针对非洲的安全和稳定问题。
Lamin Sise：非常好的问题。我所在的建设和平委员会是解决这些问题的。千年发展目标十分肯定地谈到要实现17个目标。关于和平建设问题，在某些方面已经达成了共识：在地区冲突问题上，联合国不仅应该制止冲突，而且当双方已经放下武器时，联合国还应该帮助这些国家和地区过渡。联合国不会在那里永久性地存在，而是在那里帮助该国建立各种机构。和平建设委员会成立后，建设和平的程序已与维和与和平建设的过渡问题实现了对接。
记者询问的与利比亚有关的问题：我们能从后卡扎菲的利比亚局势学到什么？
大使：利比亚局势令人苦不堪言。应该说，卡扎菲政权被剥夺了权力。我认为，在那个时候，国际社会特别是那些在背后挑战利比亚领导地位的势力，他们可能期待好的、或者至少要比卡扎菲时代好的事情发生。 事实上，利比亚已经失去了对军阀之间战争的控制，派系势力和军队都处于这样的一个阶段，即真正受苦的是普通利比亚人。邻国仍受到利比亚冲突的影响。大家都知道，法国非常关注利比亚的变化。但现在看来，对这个问题没有人能提出合适的解决方案。区域组织包括阿拉伯联盟也意识到，是他们真诚地做一些事情并解决问题的时候了。但是我们不能对利比亚发生的事情无动于衷，并且我本人期待国际社会、非盟和联合国能提出一些对策。推翻一个领袖对于国际社会来说是很容易的，而试图在原地建立新秩序和安宁却很困难。
Lamin Sise：很明显，利比亚西部曾经在卡扎菲政权的控制之下。有领袖宣称班加西是下一个目标，班加西将有流血事件发生，他很认真地说，他要大规模进攻班加西。国际社会应该制止大规模杀戮，停止战争罪行。安理会介入了这件事，它的确保护了班加西的平民，之后发生的事才是个问题。中国和俄罗斯没有投票支持关于利比亚政权更迭和北约行动的决议。
总结：
李安山教授：我认为，我们已经有了充分的交流。感谢两位智者。我认为，我们已经注意到，非洲面临着很多机遇。尽管一些非洲国家面临着困难，但不是整个大陆，大多数非洲国家实现了稳定。第二点是非洲的问题。非洲的发展和非洲的安全问题都表明，非洲有自己的发言权，必须要自己承担责任，也必须要自己做出决定。当然，也欢迎外界的援助。但这一切都必须由非洲人来解决。我记得我和马里的朋友对恐怖主义问题进行过讨论。恐怖主义这个问题就像是计算机病毒。谁创造计算机病毒，是电脑公司。那么是谁制造恐怖主义？他说，马里的一个恐怖组织，总部设在法国巴黎。当然，当我们阐述这些问题的时候，我们必须非常小心。我们以中国的方式实现了稳定、改革和发展。但我认为，其中有非洲国家可以借鉴的东西。绝对的外国干涉会造成更多的问题，我们可以从利比亚问题、伊拉克等问题看出来。
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当然，良好的治理和决策，良好的领导，以及人民的决心。所有这些，将有助于建设非洲的美好未来。谢谢大家！
African Peace and Development:
What could be learnt?
Coordinator: Professor Liu haifang
As we all know, Africa is witnessing a great development in recent years, which has attracted a lot of attention. However, is this an opportunity for Africa to have sustainable economic transformation? At the same time, we also see that peace is still far from Africa countries as favorable environment, since there are still conflicts and incidents. Then, what is the real condition in Africa in term of sustainable development? What are the challenges that Africa is facing with? Let’s welcome Ambassador Liu and Mr. Lamin Sise first to give their thoughts first.
Ambassador Liu:
As an Ambassador and special envoy for years in Africa, I have been asked so many times the same issue by Chinese leaders, why Africa still remains poor and politically instable and remains less developed, what are the reasons?
There are a lot of reasons, colonialism legacy, unfavorable international economic order and leadership problem, lack of good governance, outside interference from big powers, religious conflicts from inside and so on.
May be Lamin Sise could give us the reason. But anyhow we have seen a lot of development in recent years, particularly from the middle in the 90s, from the ten of this new millennium, we could see and we have been heard, we have read a lot about African development, the maturity of the multiparty system, among the 10 countries which are developing fast in the world, 7 are African countries. We are so happy to see a smooth and peaceful election, a transition from a sitting president to a newly elected opposition party. Nigeria is the biggest economy in the continent as recently pointed out by research by the guardian in south Africa, indicating that Nigeria will be a kind of real superpower in Africa within 10 or 20 years with 170million of population and a fast growing economy. Of course the country has its own problems and serious challenges, like book haram, like poverty, like division between south and north. But these problems could not prevent Nigeria from being further developed and from being a simple power in Africa.
Well , a lot of good news ,a lot of good development, we see a bright future .But still, Africa remains poor, still there are a lot of troubles in Africa. We could see what happened in Libya , post Kadaffi Libya, the northern part of mali there are still problems. We see that in Central African Republic, the situation is still volatile and Soudan still has armed conflicts, in Darfur the problem has not been resolved fundamentally. In many places in Africa there are a lot of challenges and it will take time to African countries with the support from international communities to solve these problems. Peace and stability are still the major challenges of Africa. I have read from the research outcomes from the western scholars saying among all those 54 African countries, more than half have been into war. So if Africa could have peace and social stability, the speed of development could be speeded up.
How could Africa manage to overcome those problems, to make the continent more stable and to make the environment better, more preferable and more attractive for foreign investment?
The south east tigers, countries like Singapore, republic of South Korea and regions like Taiwan. They had the same colonialism legacy from Japan, British etc., but they tried to overcome the problems. I think in the 50s and 60s, some of the African countries were richer than the republic of south Korea or Taiwan province or Singapore. But how could those smaller countries managed to take off from the land without rich natural resources? That’s because of policy, the consistent policy, the model of development were just suitable to their land. China’s development experience could also be shared with Africa. The Chinese government has a kind of project of trying to promote our model that is suitable for the Chinese land, Chinese culture, Chinese history but that’s not necessarily be suitable to Africa. Any kind of foreign idea, foreign model would not be necessarily adaptable to the land of Africa. That's why China do not try like some other big powers to impose our political system on Africa or rather we are willing to share our experience, particularly our experience of addressing poverty, developing small rural area and medium enterprises. We are willing to share our experience in those areas and we are not in hurry as a government policy to impose ideology or model of development to Africa. Because we are clear that economically we are successful in a lot of achievements. In terms of infrastructure, fast speed train, port and airport ad sea port, may be China could be at the parallel with developed world, even like the United States. But considering our big population, per capita income in China still low ranked about 80st place. We are in the real path of developing country. If many African countries have political stability, effective policy and effective government, what China has already done could be repeated by African countries. I still have full confidence that many African countries could what China has done and repeat that successful story.
Mr. Lamin Sise:
I would like to talk about peace and development in my region, from a different perspective, from the experience and things that we have been involved recently, probably give you 2 examples, one from the western Africa and the other from the Eastern Africa that the former Secretary General and his team have been involving recently. But before I tell you that, I would like to talk about my optimism about peaceful development in Africa. Sometimes difficult situation can lead to a greater opportunity. The example I would like to tell people concern my own country Gambia, small and poor, sometimes people say backward and irrelevant because of its size. However, I would like to tell the story of how a poor and backward country, the situation in that area can lead to greater things. In 1943, the US and the UK leaders Roosevelt and Churchill were planning a meeting in Casablanca in Morocco to strategize the end of the war and the post war strategies as well. It was that conference that the idea of unconditional surrender was formulated. Roosevelt took the trip that changed the situation for a lot of non-government territories. He travelled from Miami to Brazil then to West Africa, Gambia. What he had seen at that time, he was shocked to see such a level of poverty in Gambia. He turned to his colleagues and ask why these people are living under these conditions? If they have the freedom and the liberty to decide on their own situation, to decide their own future, they would probably change this situation. Roosevelt decides to talk to Churchill, saying that the condition of these nongovernment territories must be addressed once the war is over. Churchill, a bigger imperialist, did not want to talk about it. But Roosevelt pushed hard and said no, we must send inspector and go check the condition of these people. One day, Churchill agreed to send inspector to these territories, but he said “we would also want to send inspector to the southern of your states to check the condition of those who live in the southern of your states.” Roosevelt replied, be my guest, we will welcome them, but we must address these issues of self-government, the improvement of the lives of the inhabitant of these countries.
Anyway the US then ended up, prepared their own proposal and send it to the state department to be included in the US package that was going to be sent in San Francisco for the international conference of the establishment of the United Nation. The proposal was included in the charter of the UN and became a chapter. Which is declaration regarding no self-government territories.
What I’m trying to say here is that, a very backward country, under horrific condition led to the independence of all these countries, all became members of the United Nations. That make me very optimistic of the future of the peaceful development of Africa.
The Kenya involvement is probably well known, there has been crisis in late 2007 to 2008 led to massacre situation. The recent security crisis with Al Shabab led them to a situation that perhaps one would say how do you handle a crisis situation? How do you develop from that crisis situation?
The post-election violence could have really ruined the situation in Kenya for a very long time, sometimes these things could go on for one year, ten or fifteen years before a country could recover from it. Kenya was very lucky, from the beginning of the process they accepted the mediation from the African Union. They accepted optimism, although the African Union has its own difficulties but they could be able to make a panel of eminent person to try to mediate on the situation.
Former president Benjamin Mkapa from Tanzania and Nelson Mandela’s wife Graca Michel participated in this mediation, and Kofi Anan was the chair of that panel. The panel had the idea that the most important thing to do is to stop violence, look at what has led them to violence, but more important than anything else, the causes of that violence. Why do we have these kind of things going on? The first thing that the commission looked was what went wrong during the election, and how do they rectify that? The second thing that the commission looked is the violence itself. That is what led to the transfer of the document from Kenya to the ICC, we can get to know what has really happened.
Truth, Reconciliation and Justice Committee was established. There was preparation for a longer term issue how to address problems of election. From that, they ended up promulgating a new constitution. In my view, one of the most progressive constitution in the continent. The panel was very determinant to make sure that there was citizen input in the formulation of these ideas. So many organization were mobilized, they were very active anytime that the panel went to Nairobi to meet and discuss with them.
As to the western coast, the question of drug trafficking and the east that Kofi Annan and his team have discussion during his term. The drug trafficking situation threaten what many UN said they had achieved in many developing country in the region. Now with drug cartels from Latin America found rout from West Africa to Europe and US were really threatening these achievements. The drug trafficker were really infiltrating to almost all sector of the society, police, judiciary and political boss. They were giving money out to these individuals and the system started crumbling, you couldn't tell whether a particular judge being corrupted. You couldn't tell what a political officer will do when they are told. What they did not know is if you are a transit country, within a very short time, you could end up being a consuming country and within a short term you could end up being a manufacturing country. That’s when people gathered with Anan and said let’s establish a commission with eminent people who would go around, West Africa drug commission came into being. The first idea that the panel had is to stop violence. To get to stop violence, you get to know what has led to violence but more important is the causes of the violence.
Q.A
DAVID: I’m David M. Seward from Liberia. Student of Peking University. My question is to Ambassador. You mentioned Africa’s recent development. We have 54 countries in the continent, you mentioned of 7 in terms of recent development, is 7 out of 54 a real progress? My second question goes to Lamin Sise. There are a lot of institutions set up for solving problems in Africa, what progress have they made to sustain Africa development?
Amb: According to the IMF figures, years 2012-2013. Out of 10 fast growing economy in the world 7 are African countries.
Lamin Sise I have different perspective coming from the region on it. No outsider is going to sustain Africa development. That is our responsibility, we are the one who should come out with the solutions. Committees outside can do their work, but at the end of the day its people from our country that would do and plan a sustainable development in the continent. What people want to hear is how do we do it, what do we do. Well we have established the right institutions, the right leadership to be able to sustain the region development.
NIGERIA JOURNALIST: My name is Julian, journalist from Nigeria. I’m visiting China for the first time. I have listened with patience to the two speakers. You have raised so many issues, there are so many problems in Africa that can be discussed from so many angles. When we look at poverty is the symptom of disease, poverty can be from bad leadership, policy failure etc. All of this can lead to poverty because you have already supplanted to the majority by bad performance of governance. What keeps on worrying me is the effort of the new colonial masters that have kept for where we are. A lot of countries in Africa claim to be independent and yet they are dependent. If you look at many fail leadership in Africa, it is based on colonial master’s interference, most leaders in Africa do not have the courage to face the future of what development is.Right now the foreign policy direction of China is economic win—win situation, which African leaders can take advantage of and begin to learn how China has got to where they are.
My question is to the Amb: recently China has come out with new foreign policy of peacekeeping operation. 700 ground troops’ military officers are on their way to south Soudan on peacekeeping operation, which shows that the Foreign Policy of China is moving toward engagement, 30.000officers from China are engaging in peacekeeping operation all over the world. The question is this, how can big power like China show assurance?
Ambassador: well, the responsibility of addressing poverty and realizing social economic development lies with the African people and African leadership, which is true. China could only help the African countries to assist the effort and could not perform as the master for the affair of the African countries. Yes, China has been ever more proactive in involving in the African peace and development issues. Because nowadays, many Chinese doing business, investing in a lot of sector and have close relationship with African .China could not remain indifferent in seeing coup detat ,Bokoharam,Al Shabab. What’s happening there in Africa is closely related with ordinary Chinese people, so we have no option but more involvement with the African affairs. That's why FOCAC held3 years ago in Beijing, we have become partnership for peace and development issues, with African Union coordination. We send armed forces to United Nations for peace keeping operations in Mali and we have made a step forward. Their responsibility in the longer vision is engineering troops, medical assistance. Those peace keeping forces are to support logistical assistance for other African troops. This has long been requested by the UN peacekeeping union, by African Union. By doing this, we could demonstrate that we are sincere with regards to sharing our responsibilities. We are determined to build the common community of shared destiny with Africa countries. But our approach of engaging are different from some countries. Now we doing this, sending troops under the umbrella of the United Nations and not on our own. Because we have clear mandate of performing duties validated by the United Nations and the African Union. It’s not about just sending troops to protect Chinese citizens and investment, NO. It’s to perform the duty given by the United Nations security council and I think we will continue to do that, and this year and possibly in November, we are going to have the sixth ministerial conference of FOCAC in south Africa, and I think there will be new steps and measures come out from an overall plan to engage ourselves more closely and the issue of addressing the poverty and development in Africa. During the visit of the Prime Minister Li Keqiang and he made two important speeches, one was in AddisAbaba and the other was in Abuja, the World Economic Forum. We are going to promote a plan which is call 6.1 6.4. 6 means 6 major projects, 1 mean one platform that is FOCAC platform. The goal is to help African realize industrialization and to connect and to synchronize the overall plan of the African Union for building more infrastructures in the continent and China deepens the economic reform so that we could work together.
Journalist: the question of the DRC constitutional change
Lamin Sise:The issue of constitutional change, we have seen those kind of attempt on the continent one country to the other , that leaders want to prolong their stay and that doesn't seem to be that their citizen would accept. We saw it in Senegal with the former president Wade. I think if the structure of rule of law and government are there, hopefully,no one should be determined to change constitution in order to prolong their stay.
David m.seward: you did not mention the sustainability of the committee.
Lamin Sise:As I have said, the role of the commission was precisely raising awareness, informing the leaders that they must put some policies in place that would deal with the drug trafficking , deal with transitional aspects of it and if they don't, they are going to deal with the consumption, they are gonna to have to deal with the manufacturing. Raising this awareness might help them being careful of what they have already done and achieved in terms of development.
Central party school professor: my question is to Dr Lamin.
Do African countries cooperate with each other to adjust international crimes, such as what you’ve said drug trafficking, please give us more details, especially from the governmental perspective?
Lamin Sise: I am speaking from my personal experience rather than government institutional because my career has been with the UN. What I do know, the UN has a drug agency working with several part of western Africa countries, have meeting and coordinate with them. The issues of coordination remain with the international institution. The UN is helping the region to address this issue of drug. Not only with the issue of drug trafficking but also money laundering. ECCOWAS is dealing with that.
DAOUD: There are different angles to discuss peace and development in Africa. I would ask this question to Mr. Ambassador, from your opinion, when we speak about peace and development, where shall we start exactly?
Ambassador: Peace and development is really a big topic and big issue. Actually we talk about the era of peace and development. It is not easy to make clear answer by giving 2 sentences. On one hand, the African countries and people are full of opportunities but at the same time, they are facing a lot of challenges.
We are glad to see that Asia and Africa are the two fastest growing continents, withAsia take the lead and Africa follows immediately. The overall GDP in Asia is around 6.5 percent and overall GDP in Africa is 4.8 per cent according to IMF. If that trend continue, maybe we can predict that the gap between poor and rich will be narrowed later. How could we realize peace and stability of the continent? That task is related with a lot of things, African countries should themselves to catch up with other parts of the world, try to improve their governance, improve infrastructure, strong will to realize development, national unity and unity among different ethnic groups and also to do something more etc. If African countries could speak in one voice, if African countries could reduce their conflict of interest, the regional peace and development could be reached. My experience with the Darfur situation is that, Soudan and Chad had very bad relationship, and the problem there in Darfur was so difficult to handle. But when the two governments improved the relationship and the problem of Darfur immediately coming down. That is because Chad stop to support the rebels there in Darfur. Even in the conflict south Sudan there are a lot of stake holders. If all the involved countries are sincere, generous and real, showing more political will and commitment in solving their problems, I think the outcome will be different and the problem and difficulties will be easy to resolve.
Why Singapore has succeeded? That is because of Lee kwan Yew. That is because of consistent policy, that is because of improving the environment of investment, so all these factors are closely interrelated. Stability is the premier importance of doing anything. And reform, you have stability, you can reform. If you have reform you can develop, so stability, reform and development. These three structure could be shared in Africa.
Associate professor , Peking university history department: how many African countries really understand the meaning of silk road?
Ambassador: Well, according to the plan recently published, Africa actually is not included in the raft 65 countries of the belt road initiative. Those countries which are included are many, eastern Asia, south Asia, Arab countries, even Europe. Africa used to be part of the silk road on the sea in the history.
From China agriculture university participant: My question is for MrLaminSise, we know, global effort has been aroused to peace and building issues if we can see from the post MDG,international sustainable development agenda, we see that UN is ready to arouse global effort to peace building and promote the sustainable growth development based on the new development agenda. So in your position based on your rich experience working at the UN, I’m wondering if you can tell us, what specific measure can UN take to mobilize that individual countries, both developing countries and developed countries, to promote peaceful and increasing development especially to the security issues and stability issues in Africa.
Lamin Sise: very good question, my commission on peace building is addressing these issues. The MDG are actually talking about 17 goals to reach. The question of peace building, there was recognition that at some point, when it comes to conflict, the UN should not be there only to stop conflict. But when guns have been lay down, the UN should be there help the transition period. It’s not a permanent presence that the UN should be there, but be there help the country build the institutions. The peace building commission was established, peace building programmers have been attached to peace keeping and the transition into peace building.
Journalist asking question related to Libya: what can we learn from the post Kadafi situation in Libya ?
Ambassador: The situation in Libya is miserable. We should say that previous regime of Kadaffi were removed from power. I think the international community at that time particularly those who were behind to challenge the leadership of Libya, maybe they were expecting something good or better at least to compare with Kadafi times. Actually the situation in Libya has lost control and fighting between war lords, factional forces and armies have come to some such a stage that the ordinary Libyan people are really suffering. Neighbor countries are still being affected by the Libyan conflict. Everyone knows that France was so enthusiastic of that change in Libya but now it seems that no one has come with convenient solution for the problem there. The regional organization including the Arab league realize that it would be the time for them to sincerely do something and address the problem. But we as international community could not remain indifferent with what’s happening there in Libya and personally I expect some initiative to be worked out, probably from the international community, the African Union and the United nations. Trying to remove a leadership is easy for international community, but trying to put a new order and peace in place is difficult.
Lamin Sise: It was clear that the situation on the west side of Libya was under control of the Kadaffi regime. Given leader making announcement that Benghazi was the next one, that Benghazi was about to have a reverse of blood, he was speaking very seriously about that he was about to attack massively in Benghazi. It was in the international community to stop mass killing, to stop war crimes. The council went into that, it was indeed protection of civilian in Benghazi, what happened afterward is the problem. China and Russia did not vote for the resolution to have regime change in Libya and NATO task.
LI ANSHAN PROF: I think we have had rich conversation, thanks to the wise man according to the African tradition. I think we noticed that there are a lot of opportunities in Africa. There some African countries that are facing difficulties but not the whole continent, the majority of the African countries are enjoying stability. The second thing is that African problems, African development and African security issues all suggest that African have their say and have to take responsibility and also have to make decisions. Of course, the outside help is welcome but all this have to be African to resolve. I remember talking to my friend from Mali, we discussed about the problem of terrorism. This problem of terrorism is like computer virus. Who create computer virus, the computer company. Who create terrorism? He said one of the Mali terrorist groups, the headquarter is in France, Paris. Certainly when we address these issues we have to be very careful. And we also realize the stability, the reform and development. That is a Chinese way. But I think that Africa countries can learn something from that and definitely the foreign interference will create more problems, we can have a look at the Libya problem, Iraq and others.
And of course, good governance, determination and good leadership and also the determination of the people. All of these will contribute to a bright future of Africa. Thank you.
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（达乌德供稿、许明杰校对）